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 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.

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Ed
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PostSubject: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:44 am

Would you agree? In principle it makes sense (and I've heard of marriages where, for example, the husband says 'I don't mind you sleeping with other women so long as you don't sleep with other men') but then again perhaps it's just silliness.
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PostSubject: Re: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:09 am

I don't think so.

Is the idea that a partner of one sex couldn't satisfy all of a bisexual's needs, physical and mental? Well, isn't that the very same risk one runs into with monogamy period? Hence the importance on getting the person you choose to commit to right. Every time we decide to be with one person exclusively, we are making trade offs; some are explicit, some are implicit.

I don't have a problem with couples who decide they want to bring in a third-party for whatever reason; I just don't see it as any different an accommodation for bisexuals as I do for any other kind of partnership. I don't buy the "they're wired that way" argument; men are "wired" to seek out multiple partners, and yet we don't buy that as an excuse for cheating, because it doesn't negate the conscious choice they made to be exclusive. Temptation is what it is, bisexuals should be held to the same standards as anyone else, and frankly, if I were bisexual and it were assumed that 'oh, he must have a hell of a time with commitment then', I'd feel insulted, give me more credit than that.
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PostSubject: Re: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:02 am

I doubt it... Monogamy is Monogamy regardless of the sexuality involved...
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PostSubject: Re: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:53 am

Men are "wired" to seek multiple partners?

I find that odd...if that were true, then historically wouldn't we see far more examples of polygamy over monogamy? I would think that both sexes simply desire sex and it's cultural norms that keep women from having more sex than they do. I think even the species we descended from (homo habilis and the like) lived in social groups where both sexes shared in the upbringing of the young and strived for social status; with the females also mating with more than one male. Although...I do know that there were instances with even older species where the males would try to limit the females access to other males (I assume in the attempt to ensure their genetic code is the one that continues), so perhaps the enforced cultural limitations on woman and sex is also somewhat based on our evolution.

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PostSubject: Re: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:10 am

Megan wrote:
Men are "wired" to seek multiple partners?

I find that odd...if that were true, then historically wouldn't we see far more examples of polygamy over monogamy? I would think that both sexes simply desire sex and it's cultural norms that keep women from having more sex than they do. I think even the species we descended from (homo habilis and the like) lived in social groups where both sexes shared in the upbringing of the young and strived for social status; with the females also mating with more than one male. Although...I do know that there were instances with even older species where the males would try to limit the females access to other males (I assume in the attempt to ensure their genetic code is the one that continues), so perhaps the enforced cultural limitations on woman and sex is also somewhat based on our evolution.

I didn't mean "wired" in a hard-and-fast determinist way, and I agree about the strong influence of culture. I just meant to point out that whatever influence biology and preference have on us, it doesn't obviate the commitments we make. I don't see the fact that an individual who is sexually attracted to members of both sexes being a factor in how seriously or "easily" they accept the strictures that monogamy imposes on us, anymore then the fact that a man who is sexually attracted to other women has to forgo involvement with them in order to stay faithful, regardless of what his genes or preferences may want.
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PostSubject: Re: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:16 pm

Megan wrote:
Men are "wired" to seek multiple partners?

I find that odd...if that were true, then historically wouldn't we see far more examples of polygamy over monogamy? I would think that both sexes simply desire sex and it's cultural norms that keep women from having more sex than they do. I think even the species we descended from (homo habilis and the like) lived in social groups where both sexes shared in the upbringing of the young and strived for social status; with the females also mating with more than one male. Although...I do know that there were instances with even older species where the males would try to limit the females access to other males (I assume in the attempt to ensure their genetic code is the one that continues), so perhaps the enforced cultural limitations on woman and sex is also somewhat based on our evolution.

Over the world, there are far more instances of polygamy than monogamy. There always has been historically.

Evolutionary psychology states that men are more likely to seek multiple partners as they want to spread their genes. They have the equipment to mate with multiple partners at any one time. Women invest much more in reproduction. Therefore, in order for their genes to be represented in the next generation they seek indicators of fitness in males and look for one partner to mate with so that they can insure a good enviroment for their child in terms of wealth and health. This is replicated throughout most species.

So Eric is right, men are wired to seek multiple partners.
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PostSubject: Re: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:49 pm

Erm...polygamy is more common than monogamy? Links, please? I also am not sure if I agree that this is replicated throughout most species. Are you talking mammals, all living creatures, primates?

And Eric-thanks for the post. I knew I was picking out one phrase from your post earlier and I did like what you said regarding bisexuality, monogamy, and relationships. Well stated, sir! :P

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PostSubject: Re: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:38 pm

I found an interesting paper about the issue of polygamy and monogamy. Just to warn you-it's pretty long.

http://www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/scheidel/060807.pdf

According to the paper, polygamy has historically been more common than monogamy, but I'd still argue that monogamy is more common today than polygamy. Of course, it comes down to semantics a bit; are we defining polygamy as socially acceptable marrying of multiple wives or are we talking about non-monogamous relationships? i.e. people who have sex with multiple people during the same time period. If it's marriage, then I maintain my stance that polygamy is less common today than monogamy. If it's simply having sex with more than one person, then I'd argue that the "male wired" drive to have sex is limiting in that women also engage in the practice and the idea that they don't do it more often has less to do with how they are "wired" and more to do with social precepts and punishments for women who do so.

I'm sure I'm balking against the concept of "male wired" instead of "human wired" because it seems to stereotype the species as sex driven males versus chaste females who only want the best sperm so the can raise perfect little monkeys. It seems so overly simplified and stereotypical I can't help but find it extremely limiting and misleading.

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PostSubject: Re: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:39 pm

And sorry for the thread jack!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:17 pm

Megan wrote:
Erm...polygamy is more common than monogamy? Links, please? I also am not sure if I agree that this is replicated throughout most species. Are you talking mammals, all living creatures, primates?

And Eric-thanks for the post. I knew I was picking out one phrase from your post earlier and I did like what you said regarding bisexuality, monogamy, and relationships. Well stated, sir! :P

It is accepted in most societies. "According to the Ethnographic Atlas Codebook, of the 1231 societies noted, 186 were monogamous. 453 had occasional polygyny, 588 had more frequent polygyny, and 4 had polyandry" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy I

My reference to it being replicated throughtout most species is about sexual selection. How most Males have to indicate fitness often to their own disadvantage e.g. the peacock, in order to attract females. The females are more choosy and the males have to fight for status and mates. This is shown in the majority of species and it goes back to the fact that males can have lots of partners where as females have to invest more in order to ensure their genes are found in future generations. This is Darwinian and accepted throughout biology and psychology. I was taught this at University.

With respect to humans, women have been shown repeatedly to pursue men who are older and wealthier and men have been shown to put greater weighting on physical attractiveness. Women do this in order to ensure stability and a good environment for their offspring, age and wealth are seen as indicators of status. Men look for signs of physical attractiveness that relate to health such as a good hip to waist ratio (0.6) and young age (still able to reproduce,not disease ridden). Men have always been biologically more able to sleep around. The cost of an ejaculation is a lot less than the cost of a pregnancy. Especially considering contraception is a relatively modern invention.

This is a very famous study about this topic by a leading scholar in this field - http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/Homepage/Group/BussLAB/pdffiles/prefs_mate_selection_1986_jpsp.pdf

With reference to men and women having the same desire to sleep around but it being seen as less appropriate for women so that is why they do it less, I would again have to disagree. Women get pregnant. They have to invest a lot of resources in a pregnancy as a person and materially. I believe this would make them less likely than men to sleep around despite the social stigma.

Women aren't just chaste, just picky.
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PostSubject: Re: 'It's more difficult for bisexual people to commit to monogamy than straight or gay people'.   Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:02 pm

bisexuals are just greedy attention whores.
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